ON THIS WEEK’S episode of Dinner SOS, test kitchen director and host Chris Morocco is joined by contributing editor Amiel Stanek to answer a mix of questions to help our listeners feel more confident in the kitchen.
This is our last episode of Dinner SOS as you currently know it as we are taking a break to work on some exciting new audio programming. We felt it appropriate to close out the show by answering as many listener questions as possible. Things like, what cooking essentials should I take to an airbnb? Or what to do if you love shrimp but recently were diagnosed with an allergy to it? Chris and Amiel also answer questions about olives, like have we reached peak Castelvetranos and are there other types to consider? And what does one do when you find yourself with a surplus of nuts?
Listen now to hear why Chris and Amiel recommend recipes like Diana Yen’s Sizzling Turmeric-Dill Fish Tacos, Kendra Vaculin’s Kale Salad With Pecan Vinaigrette, Rick Martinez’s Chicken Tinga Tostadas With Bacony Black Beans and more!
Chris Morocco: Hey there, listeners. Chris here with a quick announcement. This is going to be the last episode of Dinner SOS as you currently know it, but this isn't it for audio content from Bon Appétit. We're taking a bit of a beat to cook up something new and totally exciting. In the meantime, we're still going to be publishing episodes of BA Bake Club the first Tuesday of every month, and I hope you'll tune in to nerd out about baking with Jesse, Shilpa, and the rest of the Bake Club crew.
I also want to say thank you, whether you're just tuning in now or you've listened since the beginning, and especially if you've ever written in with an SOS of your own. We couldn't do this show without our listeners. It's been so much fun to answer your questions every week. I'll be back soon, so watch this space. Okay. Hope you enjoy the show.
Hey there, listeners, future callers, and cooking enthusiasts. Welcome to Dinner SOS, the show where we help you save dinner or whatever you're cooking. I'm Chris Morocco, food director of Bon Appétit and Epicurious. And this week, as we're heading into summer proper, I'm joined by contributing editor Amiel Stanek. Hi, Amiel.
Amiel Stanek: Hi, Chris. Hello, everybody.
CM: Great to have you here. So, Amiel, today, we are going to be tackling a wide variety of listener questions, cooking in an Airbnb kitchen, which I feel like is one of your pet projects you like thinking about, shrimp alternatives, using nuts and olives in creative ways, and, of course, some general nuts-and-bolts guidance to help our listeners cook more confidently. Are you ready to dive in?
AS: Oh, I was born ready.
CM: Great. All right. Our first question is a voice memo from listener Scott.
Scott: I'm going to an Airbnb at the end of the month, and I am probably going to cook most of the meals there. So my question for you is, I can't take my whole kitchen, but what kitchen equipment is a must? Here's my limitations for you. You get one milk crate. Handles can be sticking up. We're going to be driving. For me, I know it's going to be at least my stainless steel skillet and probably my coffee grinder. What else do I have to take? What would ruin the whole flipping trip for you if you're having to use subpar equipment, and what can you make do with? Have a great day. Thank you much.
AS: Ooh, this is a good one.
CM: This is a great one. I have a very specific take on this, but I'm curious to hear from you, Amiel, because I feel like we've done some version of this story every two years for the last 15 years.
AS: We sure have, Chris.
CM: Yeah.
AS: Well, I don't know. Man, I guess I feel like my feelings about this have really changed and evolved over the years, and I don't know what... I'm curious to know what you think. But once upon a time, I was very like, the knife roll is packed. I'm bringing a Y peeler. I'm bringing a Microplane. I'm bringing scissors. I'm bringing the whole kit, and that's just the knife roll. That's just the utensils.
CM: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
AS: And then you're throwing everything in the trunk. You've got a cast iron. You've got sheet pans. You've got Dutch ovens. You've got the whole nine yards, and I don't know. I don't know if it's having a kid where I'm thinking about-
CM: A lot of things are, it's having a kid.
AS: Yeah. There are a lot of other sorts of things that I'm thinking about when it comes to packing for a trip. But I guess my approach to this these days is a little bit more plan a menu that you can make with whatever you've got. I think a lot of it for me comes down to just not planning a menu that is going to be completely predicated on that one cast-iron skillet that you really like to use, or the food processor that may or may not be there, which to me also feels like vacation cooking, where it's like I don't want to be cooking from a ton of recipes that are really involved.
I've got time to cook. I want it to feel a little bit more elastic, a little more flexible. So that said, I still feel like I'm traveling with two knives maybe, a chef's knife and a paring knife, just to cover my bases, because it's just not that fun to cook with lousy knives. And a lot of times, that's it. Maybe I'll throw a Dutch oven into the car, just because it's the car, and it's nice to have one big pot that can meet most of your needs, but I don't know. What do you think, Chris?
CM: Yeah. Well, okay, I've also similarly evolved in this space, and I think part of it is... So when you were mentioning some of the things you're pretty chill about, it's funny, because I literally have written here small silicone spatulas, a couple of spoons, chopsticks, Microplane, Y peeler, fish tweezers, cake tester, but here's the deal.
AS: We've worked on the same stories, Chris. Yeah.
CM: But all of that fits into one Klein Tools, Rebecca Jurkevich, food stylist extraordinaire-approved, little canvas pouch. Even my coffee grinder, my little hand grinder will fit in there. The things that are going to ruin my vacation are going to be not having my coffee in the morning. But the question of what do I need to cook on, I don't care. Honestly, it's like somebody once told me a great tennis player needs to play with a new can of balls, but they could play with a milk crate as a racket. You know what I mean?
That's kind of like, I'm not putting myself up there in that sense, but you know what I mean? I'll cook on anything, and I don't care, and it barely slows me down. But what will slow me down is having to use somebody's dumb, non-Y-style peeler. You know what I mean? Just the old-fashioned peeler. You do more than two potatoes, you get carpal tunnel, and you go home early. I don't need that.
AS: For sure. For sure. Yeah. No, no. I definitely get that, and I think that the same goes for ingredients. I mean, I feel like I used to be like I'm trucking in, I've got a milk crate. Forget one milk crate. I've got a milk crate that's got... It's got fish sauce. It's got soy sauce. I've got olive oil. I've got all the comforts of home. And at the end of the day, it's like I keep a quart of Diamond Crystal Kosher Salt where the spare tire goes in my Subaru. That's just there in case I need it. But other than that, it's like I'm bringing olive oil. Maybe I'll bring a pepper mill.
CM: That's what I mean. I'm going to bring my olive oil. I'm going to bring my vinegar, because I don't want to have to run out and try to find that. But do you really need your cast iron? You know what I mean? Sometimes just figuring out, does the place have a grill? If it does, you know what? That changes the game. You can base a lot of things on that. And suddenly, the cast iron is looking like a 10-pound paperweight.
AS: Totally. And I think it is thinking about the kinds of recipes that you're going to want to be cooking-
CM: Totally.
AS: ... and what sorts of things you're actually after. And if it's like, "Okay. The only way this recipe is going to work is if I can get an incredible indoor sear on this piece of meat," and if that's the thing, then you have to weigh that. Do I really want to cook this? Especially if it means I have to bring my own cast iron with me. I don't know. Is there something else that you could cook that would be just as delicious and you could make it with the, surprise, only nonstick cookware in the Airbnb?
CM: Yeah. You can pretty much plan on finding that in your cabinet. Yeah. I like that your philosophy is a little bit in the style of like, "It's a vacation, so use this as an opportunity to chill out, including as a cook." All right. So moving on.
From Julia, "At 37, I developed a hereditary shrimp allergy. There's no treatment, so people with this condition just have to avoid shrimp. But I love, love, love shrimp and used to cook it very frequently. Other seafood is delicious, but not as approachable for weeknight cooking. Clams and mussels require a same-day trip to the store. Lobster is fabulous but not budget-friendly for a weekly meal. I've landed on scallops, which are great, but I haven't been able to find recipes beyond searing. I would love some creative ideas to make scallops and new ways to fill my shrimp void." And honestly, I would say scallops are maybe part of the solve here, but I also wonder if there's just a different way to approach seafood that could be doing more for Julia.
AS: Yeah. I know. It's tough, because shrimp is so unique in the seafood world. I mean, I'm actually surprised. I'm glad to hear that scallops are helping to fill a little bit of that void, because it's actually surprising to me and tells me that she's actually a little bit more flexible than I might assume, because just scallops are just so different, the way you cook them, the texture, the flavor. And I think that texture is really the thing with shrimp. It's that kind of-
CM: Snappy.
AS: ... snappy sort of... It's the hot dog of the sea.
CM: It is.
AS: It's got that kind of snappy, a little crunch to it that's really hard to replace. I mean, honestly, and whatever, you're going to laugh at me, because I feel like this is such a specific thing, but I kind of feel like the closest texturally is monkfish or something like that.
CM: Yeah. It's funny. I had the same, similar thought around monkfish tail, just something that is so phenomenally, at least, meaty and firm and dense in that way that shrimp flesh is.
AS: Yeah. Now, I don't know that that's solving any of our weeknight issues. But if you were to find good monkfish and portion it and freeze it, it might have a little bit more utility to it. But yeah, what is as weeknight-friendly as individually quick-frozen wild shrimp?
CM: Right. It's the ability to go from the freezer to the skillet in maybe 15 minutes, just soaking in cool water. That's so helpful. But what I wondered is, part of where shrimp succeeds, I think, is that you can kind of abuse it and it's usually still fine. I'm not advocating overcooking it intentionally, but my gosh, as long as it's not actively raw, you're going to be kind of good, and you can give it a hard sear. You can grill it, whether it's in the shell or not in the shell.
Again, there's going to be a range of outcomes there, but there's a lot you can do to it. So my POV was like, treat fish, just like a relatively firm-fleshed white fish, at least with the same sort of joyfully reckless abandon that maybe you do your shrimp. Cut it into cubes and coat it in a light dusting of starch, like cornstarch or even flour, and stir-fry it. Dust it liberally in spices. Douse it in flavor, and don't be precious about it.
There was one example that I was thinking of. Diana Yen had this... It's a turmeric-dill fish taco. Just so much dill and turmeric just all kind of knocked about in a skillet. And for me, it's like, "Okay. Listen, maybe you're always going to miss that little iodine pop of shrimp, but there's other seafood options that are going to allow you to really embrace flavor in that way that I think shrimp just kind of soaks it up."
AS: Totally. Yeah. And I think that there are a lot of firm, meaty, white-fleshed fish, like pollock or haddock or something like that, that is going to get you there.
CM: Yeah. Yeah.
AS: It's like, cut it into the size and shape, or not the shape, but a piece that is about the size of an individual piece of shrimp, and that can be dropped into a curry or dropped into something.
CM: 100%.
AS: Like you were saying, even if you're not treating the fish itself with a lot, it's going to cook really quickly. And it's almost that drop it in, give it a stir, and then turn the heat off, and dinner is served sort of thing, which I think shrimp really gives you.
CM: Exactly. Yeah. And I think you're going to be able to find a lot of that firm-fleshed white fish, at least an option, in most supermarkets frozen. If you're looking for the convenience of take it from the freezer, put it in water for 10 or 15 minutes, and then start cutting it up, there's going to be an option there for you.
In terms of scallops, it is interesting that Julia has sort of decided that scallops are the sort of solve, and that's why I hesitated in the beginning to get fully on board with that. I think scallops are great. I don't think they necessarily have to be seared, but just like you were talking about, am I going to cut up beautiful diver scallops that I paid however many dollars per pound and then drop them into, whatever, my Thai curry or my khao soi or whatever?
AS: Right.
CM: I mean, I could. I mean, you could, but I don't know that it's doing something for you at that point that another white fish that's probably a good bit cheaper isn't doing.
AS: Yeah. For sure. And I think that scallops are one of those things for me where it's like, there are a couple of ways that I like to eat them, and it doesn't feel like I'm in a rut with scallops, because it's such a rare treat that I get scallops that are really that good. It's like, I'm searing them. I'm eating them raw, and that's about it.
CM: Yup. Yup. We're going to take a quick break. When we're back, Amiel and I help a listener who went a little nuts in the grocery store and has to figure out what to do with their haul. And we are back. All right. So from Erin, "Over the holidays, I bought nuts in bulk, and now I have no idea what to use them for. For context, I have whole, unroasted almonds, walnuts, pecans, and hazelnuts. I used them for cinnamon-roasted almonds, NY-style chocolate chip walnut cookies, and other baking recipes. I'd love to see if you have any ideas on how to use them or general tips on how to incorporate them into balanced meals. I'd love to lean into savory, if possible, since I've done a lot of baking with them."
This one made me laugh. I don't know. At first, I thought maybe they were still in the shell, and I was like, "I don't know. It sounds like you need to throw a party." You need to have people over, is what you need to do.
AS: Yeah. I mean, what an embarrassment of riches.
CM: Oh, yes.
AS: You made such an incredible investment in your future, and now you're like, "How do I spend all this money?"
CM: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
AS: They brought up mixed nuts, like a spiced nut sort of thing?
CM: Yeah. Cinnamon-roasted almonds. Some sort of spiced nut approach, but at least just with the almonds.
AS: I mean, to me, I'm like, "Okay. You're getting into peak outdoor, entertaining season, peak wanting to have things that people come over to say hi, and then you open a bottle of wine, and you need something to put out." To me, some really nicely roasted almonds, just kind of olive oily roasted almonds with just some flaky salt and not much else. That is so luxurious, and you will run through all of those almonds in a couple of months.
CM: Yeah.
AS: I feel like that one, to me... The almonds I feel like we can get rid of really quickly, easily.
CM: Well, we're selling almonds.
AS: Just roasting them and seasoning them and selling them.
CM: Yeah. Yeah. Carla Lalli Music, I feel like she has a similar treatment with almonds, I want to say, and maybe dates that are kind of slow-toasted in olive oil and then served as kind of a cocktail snack. It's funny, because I never have this problem, and I think part of it is maybe because my wife eats mainly gluten-free. When I'm going to make a crumble, I'm not using flour in my crumble. I'm just blitzing almonds with oats, and that is the base of my crumble.
Nuts are going into my food all the time. And yes, a lot of it sometimes is baking. If all else fails, just lightly roast them, and you can use so many nuts in your salads and with your roasted vegetables. There's almost not a threshold of hazelnut inclusion that would be considered too many. I don't know if that was the right construction, but you know what I'm saying? In terms of how I cook. My hazelnuts, I have to treat them so preciously, because you get that one little package for 7 or $8, and then you toast it, and then you take the skins off, and now you've got them in the bank. But I'm doling them out like everyone's allowance in their salad.
AS: Yeah. I feel like when you really have access to a lot of nuts, I feel like it really is such a nice way to really up your salad game.
CM: Oh, yeah.
AS: There's that restaurant in New York, Le Relais de Venise L'Entrecôte, which I just found out recently it became a TikTok restaurant. But basically, it's a restaurant that only serves steak, French fries, and this kind of au poivre sort of sauce, but they start with a salad. And it's just a really simple green salad, but it has this dressing that every bite has a really nice, kind of toasty walnut flavor, and that's kind of how I've been liking to incorporate nuts into a salad. I feel like I grew up with the kind of salad with a couple of performative pecans in it.
CM: Right.
AS: But it's like, I want to take those nuts and then I just want to smoosh them with the back of a skillet or something. Get all of those little dusty, irregular pieces, and toss that through with a salad right at the end. So nice.
CM: Yeah. I love that. I wasn't thinking about that. But Kendra Vaculin, a few years back for Thanksgiving, did a kale salad with pecan vinaigrette, and it's basically just like making a pecan tahini. Right? You can do the same thing with walnuts. You can blitz them up and turn them into a dressing that has such body and presence, and that doesn't then require dairy, which often can be a crutch to make super thick dressings. Love that.
AS: The other thing, I mean, to speak seasonally, is, it's pesto season, baby.
CM: Oh, yeah.
AS: And the thing that turns people off of pesto making, in addition to having to have a lot of... If people are stuck on basil pesto, getting six cups of basil is a feat, but it's the nuts. The nuts are expensive, and I personally am not a big pine nut guy.
CM: I haven't bought them in years. I'm sorry.
AS: I haven't bought them in years.
CM: They're fine.
AS: And I feel like it's hard to get reliably good pine nuts. So if I'm making pesto, I'm using walnuts. I'm using other nuts. And to me, a walnut-parsley pesto is delicious, and it's almost more about the nuts, or just as much about the nuts as the herbs.
CM: Love it.
AS: Yeah. Good problems to have. Too many nuts.
CM: Great problem. This one made me smile. I was so excited for them. Honestly, Erin, worst case, you just make your own nut butter, and you'll burn through cups at a time.
AS: Oh, yeah. Hazelnuts is one of them? Make your own Nutella.
CM: You'll be laughing, honestly. You're sitting pretty. All right. From Katie, "Hey, guys. I make a new recipe every night for the most part, and it is wearing on me to keep changing up things so much. It has also been hard on the wallet to always be buying crazy ingredients for any single recipe. I would like help with getting into a rotation of recipes that will cut down on grocery costs, but keep things new and interesting as well."
AS: This is a thing. This is definitely a thing, and I think it's really hard when, I think especially, we spend so much time on social media, and you're seeing just every possible cuisine, every possible permutation of things to crave variety, or for that to feel like that is the apex of cooking, is I'm having Thai food on Monday and Italian on Tuesday and Mexican on Wednesday. But it's really hard. Those are all different pantries.
CM: Yeah.
AS: I mean, I think that the first suggestion I would have is think about cuisines that you're really attracted to or a recipe developer whose work you really like and start with a book, because I feel like a cookbook is kind of its own cosmology that has its own kind of pantry and kind of sensibility. And if you still really feel like you want to be cooking different things every night and feeling like you're getting some variety, working within a particular cookbook or a cuisine is going to help you, because then you've got the pantry.
CM: Yeah. That's so smart. That's so true.
AS: You invested in it once, and then you've got a lot of room to move in there without feeling like you have to buy a whole new pantry five nights a week, because, I mean, that would bankrupt you.
CM: Yeah. I could be wrong. I feel like Katie has hit that sort of tipping point that I think you and I probably hit a long time ago of just seeing the potential in what you have as opposed to feeling like you need to start from a clean slate every night, "Oh, well, tonight, I'm doing Korean. So I better put away the Parmesan cheese and the cheddar and the olive oil, and I better embrace the gochujang and the gochugaru."
And it's like, meanwhile, I'm thinking kimchi carbonara. I'm putting kimchi in my cacciatore. I'm making gochujang noodles, but I'm just going to screw it and put Parmesan on it, because it'll just be that much more delicious anyway. I also am very empowered, because I've done a lot of these moves before, and I know it's going to be okay. And most people don't have that person in their ear saying, "It's going to be fine. It's going to be fine."
AS: Yeah. And I think that when I hear somebody saying that they're cooking a different recipe every night, to me, what I'm imagining is somebody finding a recipe that has been written down, and they are going out and they're shopping for all of those ingredients, and this person sounds like they are a better cook than they're maybe giving themselves credit for.
CM: Exactly.
AS: And that the best thing that we could do is to give this person permission to just freestyle a little bit. Plan to make maybe two new recipes a week, and then you've got ingredients to work with. You've got leftovers to play with. You've got maybe an ingredient that you haven't used before and a bunch of familiar ones, and take the time that you would normally use to go shopping for the ingredients for dinner that night, and sit down and just think about what you've got and what you already know and what other sorts of references you might be able to lean on. To me, the best thing about cooking is, it's pretty hard to make something that's actually inedible.
CM: Yeah. Totally. Yeah. No, I fully agree with that. And there's a principle here that I want to invoke that has come up before, the concept of nextovers. Right? Rice pilaf day one can become fried rice on day two, which more leftovers of which could go into chicken and rice meatballs for day three. I mean, these are just broad examples, but I'll make chicken tinga a couple times a month, but then the leftover chicken might get dropped into my Thai curry or it may become chicken pozole with the inclusion of hominy, or I might just pull out the meat and use the broth for something else and make chicken quesadillas.
I think seeing the potential, and like you said, take two new recipes a week, and then think really intentionally about what you can do with those leftovers. I mean, just know that you can make informed decisions about how to alter some of the favorite things that you've been cooking to feel like you are progressing towards a weeknight repertoire that best embodies how you want to be eating and what's working for you.
AS: Yeah.
CM: We're going to take one more break. When we're back, some hot takes on olives and what to make when you want something fun. Amiel, we're back once again. This one, I was just like, "Oh, I'm going to shout this out to Amiel. I'm going to sit back and let him rip." Okay. From Shreya, "I'm obsessed with Castelvetrano olives. I'm, number one, always looking for fun vegetarian recipes to use them in. And two, more importantly, I need help figuring out how and where to consistently find a good Castelvetrano olive. I have access to Whole Foods and many other grocers nearby, but often, Whole Foods doesn't have these at the olive bar. And no matter where I am, I never know which bottled or vacuum-sealed ones, or alternatives even, would be reliable. The choices of green olive options can get so overwhelming."
AS: Wow. Chris, I have to tell you something.
CM: You don't like olives?
AS: Oh, I love olives.
CM: Oh, okay. I was like, "Hold on, we about to cut the feed here."
AS: No, no, no. I love olives. I am so over Castelvetrano olives.
CM: Oh.
AS: I'm done. I never want to have another one in my life.
CM: Why?
AS: I'm so tired.
CM: Did we overdo it?
AS: Because we overdid it. Now, it's the only olive. It's the only olive that anybody uses, eats, sells, stocks. If I see another Castelvetrano olive in my martini, a uniquely bad martini olive, I want to flip a table.
CM: A uniquely bad martini olive.
AS: Most people could not name another olive other than Castelvetrano, which it probably took me 10 years to learn how to say Castelvetrano and to be able to actually say it without tripping over my words. And by that point, now, I'm done. I'm done. But, I mean, I understand why people like them.
CM: You understand the appeal.
AS: Yes. I understand the appeal of Castelvetrano olives. I have purchased many a jar of them and enjoyed them very much. Listen, that was a little bit of a bit. That was a little bit of hyperbole. I just think that they're such a unique-tasting olive, and they're so different from a gordal or a Cerignola or an Arbequina or all these other olives that, to me, are a lot more olivey. I feel like Castelvetranos have become the olive for people who don't really like olives.
CM: Exactly.
AS: And I don't mean that in a bad way, but it's buttery. It's rich. It doesn't have the kind of sharp pointiness-
CM: No.
AS: ... that some other olives have.
CM: It is the opposite of a Kalamata olive.
AS: Yes. Yes.
CM: The opposite. It is the polar extreme. If a Kalamata olive with that shrieking high note of fermented olive oil, kind of, but on steroids, shouting in your ear is one pole, Castelvetrano is like butter.
AS: Yeah. Yeah.
CM: It's barely there. And you're so right to point out that I think for years, we've used it so often in recipes, because we know we can hook the people who are olive skeptics with it, that it's not going to deter them the same way that another olive could prove decisive.
AS: Totally, and I feel like it is... I think part of it is also a question of aesthetics.
CM: Oh, sure.
AS: I'm like, "I don't want the bright green olive anymore. I want the drab. I want the khaki. I want that dark, drab olive, that olive-looking olive."
CM: Give me your three desert island olives.
AS: I mean, I love a gordal.
CM: Tell me about a gordal. I don't know that I'm familiar with it.
AS: It's a Spanish olive. It's big, meaty. A lot of times, it's the one that I feel like I have been seeing at the cool... It's been the martini olive that I've seen at a lot of places recently, and it is often brined with a little bit of MSG.
CM: Whoa.
AS: So it's really savory and really sharp and just very complex, and almost always sold pitted. It's been hard to find them not pitted.
CM: But you're okay with that?
AS: Yeah, I'm fine with that, because also, they're good for martinis and good for snacking. But it's kind of like you need one or two, because they're... Truly, I love putting out a little dish of olives, just like budgeting basically three olives per person, because you don't want to eat many more than that.
CM: When a restaurant drops a punch bowl of olives in the center of the table, I sit there. I don't know about you, and I'm like, "Who do you think I am?"
AS: I'm like, "This is dinner in most places."
CM: Yeah. This is it. This and a glass of wine.
AS: This is crazy. Yeah.
CM: Okay. Number one is gordal.
AS: Gordal, and whatever. I'm sure this is going to change in five years. But also, I'm obsessed with the Arbequina. I don't know if I'm pronouncing it correctly, but they're-
CM: Yeah. That sounds right.
AS: ... these tiny little olives, and these are ones that we've been buying in bulk. So we've got a gallon jar in our basement fridge, and you put out a little dish of those, and there are like 40 olives in just a little quarter cup, and they're delightful. They're very tart, very tangy, and just kind of fun to eat because they're so small.
CM: Love. Okay.
AS: And I think that I love a Cerignola.
CM: Those are big and green. Right?
AS: They're big and green. And I feel like, to me, they have a lot of the pleasure of a Castelvetrano in their mildness, but are just a little bit brighter and sharper. They're a little bit more of a vinegary edge, but whatever. To answer this caller's question, and I think I've totally just monologued for so long, I've forgotten most of it.
CM: No, no, no. This is great background. Yeah. So clearly, their way in is Castelvetrano, but what's that next stepping stone that you want to draw them towards through the gateway?
AS: I mean, I think that, to me, when I started to really fall in love with olives was when I started buying, and I think that this person is there, is when you start buying one type of olive, and you move away from the, "I don't want a mixed bowl of olives if I'm going to the olive bar. I want to keep them separated so I can really appreciate them."
And it's not to say that I wouldn't use multiple types in a recipe or ever mix them, but I feel like the caller knows that they like Castelvetrano because they've been eating those specifically, and they know what they like about them. And so, I think that the kind of next step is go to the olive bar and get two or three types.
Keep them separate. Serve them separately. Eat them separately, and take a moment with them. What do you like about each one? And maybe you don't like them. Maybe you buy three and you only like one of them, but you're like, "Okay. So now I've got Castelvetrano, and then I've got this other type that I actually really like and can be a part of my rotation and a part of my olive life."
CM: I want to check out gordal now too.
AS: Yup. Oh, yeah. They're fun.
CM: All right. Our last question comes from Lauren. "My husband and I are a folk music duo. We travel a lot playing concerts. When we have a Friday night at home, we like to listen to good music and eat a good meal, just the two of us. I cook most every night of the week, even when we're traveling, a lot of soups, stews, rice, beans, curries, vegetarian one-pot meals. But when it comes to Friday night, my husband often says, 'I want something fun.' I know then it's not the night to make lentil soup. We both love a lot of different food types, and I'm a very proficient home cook. We do have a few restrictions. No dairy or shellfish, and we don't eat much meat. Without those things, sometimes it's difficult to fulfill the fun brief. Can you help me?"
AS: Ooh.
CM: I feel like, because it's like we all get into the weeds of our routines. And suddenly, the weekend rolls around, and it's like, "Oh, well, let's make something special." But it's like, special is the fact that we managed to get food on the table every night this week. You know what I mean? Special is the luxury of just being in each other's company. But I also understand completely what Lauren is meaning here. You know what I mean? How do you create space for special experiences dotted through the routine and the everyday?
AS: Yeah. No, and that's a really good question. I mean, to me, when I think about making special food, and this is a thing that I feel like I've been chewing on for the last couple of years. It's like, the two factors are time and money, and it is a question of, do you want to spend a lot of time, or do you want to spend a lot of money?
And I know this person's not a big meat person, so this is maybe a bad example, but you buy the really crème de la crème, beautiful, dry-aged rib eye steak. It cooks quickly. All it needs is salt and pepper, and you've got something really special. If you want to buy a cheaper cut of meat that's going to want to be braised into submission, it's like what you're giving to that dish is time, the time to get all of your aromatics together, to really baby it over the stove or in the oven until it's something really special.
So I feel like that's kind of how I like to think about special eating and special cooking. But I think that the fun part of it is, I think a lot of times, cooking with something that you don't normally cook with, whether that's because you don't have time to or because it feels like a little bit of a splurge. And maybe it's just going and shopping for produce and getting something that looks really delicious and really exciting to you, like a cool lettuce you've never had before or some piece of farmers market produce that you've never cooked with, and taking the time to do a little bit of discovery. Look it up. Find a recipe that feels exciting to you.
CM: Discovery and the ability to take the time to work on something new. And even if that's making tacos, which maybe you would have made a different night of the week, if there's some local spot where you can get some nice masa, or even if you just get Maseca, frankly, or one of the other better brands of dried masa, making your own tortillas to make those tacos is a fun maybe Friday night project that doesn't take so long, but it adds an element of discovery in the process that I think feels really fulfilling and, at least for me, would be very captivating.
And actually, my brain also went back to cookbooks when you were saying discovery around this notion of forcing yourself to do something different or new, and I think sometimes that means like, "Oh, yeah. Get a recommendation for a couple of cookbooks." We just had Meera Sodha in the test kitchen a few weeks ago, and it was just a total delight to meet her and connect with her.
She's got a banger of a book out in the U.S. now called Dinner, and I think just spending the time working through somebody else's ideas about what constitutes fun on a weeknight is another really solid way in, and there's so many vegetarian options in her book. So might be one to consider.
AS: Totally. Yeah. And I think that listening to the dynamic that this caller was describing, I feel like when somebody is making something for you, I think the food tastes better. It's different from, "Okay. I've got my go-tos. I can put this together in my sleep. We're going to eat dinner and then move on to something else."
It's like when the act of making food feels like something that you're investing time and care into, especially when the person you're feeding is in the same space as you, I don't know. There's something about that that just feels really special inherently, even if the thing is not... It's not fancy. You're not using expensive ingredients. You're not doing any grand culinary theatrics. It feels a little bit more special. It feels a little more Friday night.
CM: Cooking from a place of love has power. 100%. Cool. I think that wraps it up. And Amiel, cannot thank you enough for joining me today.
AS: Oh, Chris, thank you for having me. It's been a real treat.
CM: Awesome. You can find the recipes mentioned on today's episode linked in our show notes and on the Epicurious app, brought to you by Condé Nast. Just search Epicurious in the App Store and download today. And if you're not yet a subscriber, you can sign up today for a 30-day free trial in the app or at bonappetit.com.
I'm your host, Chris Morocco. My cohost this week is Amiel Stanek. Our senior producer is Michele O'Brien. Peyton Hayes is our associate producer. Research editing by Marissa Wolkenberg. Jake Lummus is our studio engineer. This episode was mixed by Amar Lal at Macro Sound. Jordan Bell is our executive producer. Chris Bannon is Condé Nast's head of global audio. And thank you again for listening to Dinner SOS.